“Anarchist”, “Anti-PAP”, “Neutral” or “PAP Butt Kisser”?
In the dialogues exchange between Wolong and me (and of course the interesting dialogues between At82 and Wolong) it sparked some personal thoughts about local politics. So much so that one might (rightly) question the neutrality of this blog. The only surprised that I have was that it took quite a few months before someone did question my neutrality (as I’ve expected to be questioned much earlier).
I think this highlights one disturbing problem with local politics. Singaporeans tend to only classify fellow men (who are interested in politics) to be only either an anti-PAP (for which you supposedly sanely passionate) or you are just a PAP-butt-kisser (for which you are insanely loyal or ambitious). Neutrality is not in the dictionary of most and the convenient label for neutrality is “fickle-minded”, “fence-seating”, “indecisive”, “bo chap” or several other similar nuances. In America, you are either a Republican or a Democrat. And the system even penalizes independent voters by having you to fill up applications to declare independence from your previous vote (eg previous vote for Republicans) and reregister as an independent electorate for the next elections (otherwise if assumes you follow your previous choice should you not vote).
I’ve never believed in neutrality for neutrality sake but I believe in giving credit where credit is due. Politics should never be the case when you are either with me or against me kind of attitude. Nor is politics having a definitive right solution and a definitive wrong solution. The world is changing and no longer is the world where the truth is white (no punts intended on PAP colours!) and the wrong being black. Perhaps the world is just a shade of grey. Is it difficult to be neutral? Definitely so and I’m no exception. But I do try my best to bring a fair picture to articles and when being neutral sometimes require me to be “pro-PAP”, inevitably, I’ll be called a PAP-butt-kisser... I guess people only want to hear what they believed in. Otherwise, anything else would be non-neutral.
A crude example of politics in motion is just a stadium of people watching a soccer match. In it, there are 22 players, 2 managers and 1 referee but 50,000 people thinking differently and that they know the best method to win. The solutions often seem obvious to the 50,000 people but they wondered why the manager or the players hasn’t played to their solutions. In relations to politics? The first mistake that any political analyst can make on politics is to think that there is one true solution to each problem. Politics, by nature, is messy and never has clear cut question or answers. What maybe rational to some maybe be irrational to another. Without making this a political science article, the bottomline is that many political scientists still ponders upon whether politics should be left in the hands of a few “sage rulers” or in the hands of mass public. The jury is still out on this one, with the argument shifting from representation (democracy) vs the complexity nature of politics for laymen.
From the comments, I supposed wolong is quite into Chinese History, which I’m also a fanatic. Allow me to illustrate my point. After the unstable founding of the Republic, after the collapse of Qing Dynasty, Dr Sun Yat Sen championed the causes of Three People's Principles, which is 民族主義 "The People's Relation/Connection" or "Government of the People"): Nationalism, 民權主義 "The People's Power" or "Government by the People"): Democracy and 民生主義 "The People's Welfare/Livelihood" or "Government for the People"): this is sometimes translated as Socialism. But against the autocratic regime of Yuan Shikai, his ideal democracy and parliamentary system never took off. His abled lieutenant, Song Jiaoren was assassinated shortly after orchestrating an election victory by the KMT in March, 1913. When push comes to shove and against the warlords of the north, some KMT party members change sides. Dr Sun tried to rally a second revolution against Yuan, but the party did not respond to his call. Then, he too realized that a certain amount of control was needed in the expense of democracy. Later, he made himself Generalissimo, a title which Chiang Kai-Shek later assumes. Obviously, this is a very short and concise history that left out many details, but this drives home a point which even Dr Sun realizes. Would democracy be suitable for China now? USA seems to think so but not the CCP. Should Democracy occur in China this very moment, the western China provinces such as Tibet and pre-dominantly Muslim provinces might declare independence. Stability or instability after democracy? We wouldn’t know.
Democracy is a tool for nationhood and is a means but not an end. The fundamental assumption of democracy is that people are rational enough to make their own choices. But what is rational and does rationality differs from one and another? Yes! Why do people smoke even though they know it is bad for their health? But it is also rational to some sense is that they are maximizing their own short term happiness by smoking. Fundamentally, democracy is only a tool to bring more fairness, justice and better lives to its citizens. Sometime it works (Switzerland); sometimes it doesn’t (Philippines).
Do I think if the Singapore Parliament can do with more creditable oppositions? Yes, I think so. But the opposition member should not be elected just because it opposes for the sake of opposing. He/she has to be creditable and capable. Too much of the underdog sympathy and therefore-I-vote-for-them kind of attitude doesn’t make our society any better. But we do need check-and-balances as the Worker’s Party advocates. Personally (which maybe objective), I think PAP has used too much underhand (but legal) means of gaining unfair competition ahead of their oppositions in the past. But they can’t and I don’t think they will do that again as the perception of fairness amongst the public has increased. There are issues which I’m strongly against the PAP’s decisions. Example: Why should a legitimately elected opposition MP (eg Chiam See Tong and Low Thia Khiang) not able to seat in the Constituency’s Citizens Consultative Committee (CCC) as the Adviser but have an PAP appointed representative (eg Sitoh Yih-Pin)?
Enough of ramblings from me and after this article, I will write on something more empirical. At82, Aljunied GRC will definitely change. Don’t be surprised that you land up being at Sembawang GRC or Pasir Ris-Punggol or even Ang Mo Kio GRC. Wolong, I did think of writing on older generation of leaders and communist Lim Chin Siong or Fong Swee Suan but probably younger readers are not used to such colourful past.
Coming Up Next: Policy Implementation in Singapore
Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong, “I tell you one thing we can do the Chinese cannot do. I can ban chewing gum in Singapore and make it stick. Can you do that in Tiananmen?” Traditionally, when leaders put forth a policy, Singaporeans assumed that it is implemented. Implementation has always been the strength of the PAP government but behind the veil of Ministries, what really happens and how does it get implemented?
I think this highlights one disturbing problem with local politics. Singaporeans tend to only classify fellow men (who are interested in politics) to be only either an anti-PAP (for which you supposedly sanely passionate) or you are just a PAP-butt-kisser (for which you are insanely loyal or ambitious). Neutrality is not in the dictionary of most and the convenient label for neutrality is “fickle-minded”, “fence-seating”, “indecisive”, “bo chap” or several other similar nuances. In America, you are either a Republican or a Democrat. And the system even penalizes independent voters by having you to fill up applications to declare independence from your previous vote (eg previous vote for Republicans) and reregister as an independent electorate for the next elections (otherwise if assumes you follow your previous choice should you not vote).
I’ve never believed in neutrality for neutrality sake but I believe in giving credit where credit is due. Politics should never be the case when you are either with me or against me kind of attitude. Nor is politics having a definitive right solution and a definitive wrong solution. The world is changing and no longer is the world where the truth is white (no punts intended on PAP colours!) and the wrong being black. Perhaps the world is just a shade of grey. Is it difficult to be neutral? Definitely so and I’m no exception. But I do try my best to bring a fair picture to articles and when being neutral sometimes require me to be “pro-PAP”, inevitably, I’ll be called a PAP-butt-kisser... I guess people only want to hear what they believed in. Otherwise, anything else would be non-neutral.
A crude example of politics in motion is just a stadium of people watching a soccer match. In it, there are 22 players, 2 managers and 1 referee but 50,000 people thinking differently and that they know the best method to win. The solutions often seem obvious to the 50,000 people but they wondered why the manager or the players hasn’t played to their solutions. In relations to politics? The first mistake that any political analyst can make on politics is to think that there is one true solution to each problem. Politics, by nature, is messy and never has clear cut question or answers. What maybe rational to some maybe be irrational to another. Without making this a political science article, the bottomline is that many political scientists still ponders upon whether politics should be left in the hands of a few “sage rulers” or in the hands of mass public. The jury is still out on this one, with the argument shifting from representation (democracy) vs the complexity nature of politics for laymen.
From the comments, I supposed wolong is quite into Chinese History, which I’m also a fanatic. Allow me to illustrate my point. After the unstable founding of the Republic, after the collapse of Qing Dynasty, Dr Sun Yat Sen championed the causes of Three People's Principles, which is 民族主義 "The People's Relation/Connection" or "Government of the People"): Nationalism, 民權主義 "The People's Power" or "Government by the People"): Democracy and 民生主義 "The People's Welfare/Livelihood" or "Government for the People"): this is sometimes translated as Socialism. But against the autocratic regime of Yuan Shikai, his ideal democracy and parliamentary system never took off. His abled lieutenant, Song Jiaoren was assassinated shortly after orchestrating an election victory by the KMT in March, 1913. When push comes to shove and against the warlords of the north, some KMT party members change sides. Dr Sun tried to rally a second revolution against Yuan, but the party did not respond to his call. Then, he too realized that a certain amount of control was needed in the expense of democracy. Later, he made himself Generalissimo, a title which Chiang Kai-Shek later assumes. Obviously, this is a very short and concise history that left out many details, but this drives home a point which even Dr Sun realizes. Would democracy be suitable for China now? USA seems to think so but not the CCP. Should Democracy occur in China this very moment, the western China provinces such as Tibet and pre-dominantly Muslim provinces might declare independence. Stability or instability after democracy? We wouldn’t know.
Democracy is a tool for nationhood and is a means but not an end. The fundamental assumption of democracy is that people are rational enough to make their own choices. But what is rational and does rationality differs from one and another? Yes! Why do people smoke even though they know it is bad for their health? But it is also rational to some sense is that they are maximizing their own short term happiness by smoking. Fundamentally, democracy is only a tool to bring more fairness, justice and better lives to its citizens. Sometime it works (Switzerland); sometimes it doesn’t (Philippines).
Do I think if the Singapore Parliament can do with more creditable oppositions? Yes, I think so. But the opposition member should not be elected just because it opposes for the sake of opposing. He/she has to be creditable and capable. Too much of the underdog sympathy and therefore-I-vote-for-them kind of attitude doesn’t make our society any better. But we do need check-and-balances as the Worker’s Party advocates. Personally (which maybe objective), I think PAP has used too much underhand (but legal) means of gaining unfair competition ahead of their oppositions in the past. But they can’t and I don’t think they will do that again as the perception of fairness amongst the public has increased. There are issues which I’m strongly against the PAP’s decisions. Example: Why should a legitimately elected opposition MP (eg Chiam See Tong and Low Thia Khiang) not able to seat in the Constituency’s Citizens Consultative Committee (CCC) as the Adviser but have an PAP appointed representative (eg Sitoh Yih-Pin)?
Enough of ramblings from me and after this article, I will write on something more empirical. At82, Aljunied GRC will definitely change. Don’t be surprised that you land up being at Sembawang GRC or Pasir Ris-Punggol or even Ang Mo Kio GRC. Wolong, I did think of writing on older generation of leaders and communist Lim Chin Siong or Fong Swee Suan but probably younger readers are not used to such colourful past.
Coming Up Next: Policy Implementation in Singapore
Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong, “I tell you one thing we can do the Chinese cannot do. I can ban chewing gum in Singapore and make it stick. Can you do that in Tiananmen?” Traditionally, when leaders put forth a policy, Singaporeans assumed that it is implemented. Implementation has always been the strength of the PAP government but behind the veil of Ministries, what really happens and how does it get implemented?
Now, policy implementation, that I am interested in. I have been trying to look for publicly available literature on topics like policy cycle, but so far the only thing that looks decent is a paper from the Civil Service College. I have not read much of that paper yet, somewhere hiding in my laptop, but anyone can just google it.
As for the neutrality or butt kisser dichotomy (I love using this word), it is somewhat inevitable given the lack of expressable political views in Singapore. Please tell me that you heard of people who are employed by the government in whatever fields, never ever voted for the opposition parties just because they fear for their rice bowls. If you haven't then I pity you.
Whatever the views of polictical scientist are, may not be that important, hell none of them predicted correctly the fall of Soviet Union, it was some damn demographist, believe it is a French fella too.
I would pointedly just state here that I do not ever believe that PAP will always have the best interest of me, a so call citizen, at their hearts. Bt enough of my rants already. Have a happier new year than the last.
Posted by
Anonymous |
January 04, 2006 1:00 PM
Chinese history fanatic eh haha. Me too lol.
I am also impress by the way our govt implement their policy. Maybe one of the reason is that Spore is too small. We basically has an whole govt (a big 1 at tat) doing what would usually be handled by a mayor as in the case of a larger country.
Posted by
at82 |
January 04, 2006 1:45 PM
Hi Ted
Point taken. Thanks for your comments once again.
As for civil servants not voting for oppositions, it is kind of interesting since I was "once" a civil servant for a very short stint (not officially). A lot of times is self-censorship and some fear of the reprecussions that would happen to them should anyone found out their vote. Btw, civil servant total up to around 27,000 people, much less than the size of a SMC.
The Chairwoman of the Worker's Party was a civil servant from the police force. Many candidates from SDP, WP are also civil servants and some are even senior officers. NOthing really did happen to them nor did the opposition members who are civil servants had any complaints. Should this be a prime discrimination due to vote preference, they will definitely be the first to raise up the issue.
Singaporeans are brought up in an environment of self censorship thanks to hard governing ways in the 70s and 80s. Lack of expressionism is partly attributed to the attitudes of the society and its people.
You have your views on PAP is not the best party that serves your interest and I respect your views. This blog will definitely not bear the "either you are with me or against me" attitude. Kudos to you. Take care!
Cheers!
T
Posted by
Thrasymachus |
January 04, 2006 4:57 PM
I do agree generally on your sentiments on neutrality (or the lack of it) in S'pore and I'm in support of a need for such a blog to raise issues (be it political or whatnot) from a more neutral pov. (I do think the ST is playing their role of being a mouthpiece for the government too well). I would love to explore the position of being an independent in local politics once I find the time.
Keep up the good writing.
Posted by
footix24 |
January 04, 2006 8:04 PM
lol nvr knew i hv such a "provoking" effect lol
Posted by
Anonymous |
January 04, 2006 9:18 PM
cos they r nt interested all the more u shld write how many youngsters knew ong pang poon lim kim san toh chin chye e w barker s rajaratnam goh keng swee othman wok (these r the ppl who risked life n limb nt wp sdp its an open secret tht tunku is under presure 2 detain lky) lets blow a few trumpets these men wont live 4ever (devan nair n barker hv passed away the rest r in their 80s) if u dun wan 2 write abt the rest @ least dr goh (even gms held him in high regd) lky once said "without him, spore wld nt be transformed!"
Posted by
Anonymous |
January 04, 2006 9:32 PM
wishing dr goh in gd health n longevity
Posted by
Anonymous |
January 04, 2006 9:33 PM
u r saying me chn history fanatic lol "wei wo hua xia you you 5k" li hongzhang styled shaoquan lol
Posted by
Anonymous |
January 04, 2006 9:36 PM
nt many opp credit pap when its due lol (even if they do its 2 an certain extent onli afterall as i said y credit ur opponents so much rite? doesnt make sense? lol u expect chee/jbj 2 credit pap lol nxt life maybe lol)
Posted by
Anonymous |
January 04, 2006 9:43 PM
welllll thts how opp view ppl better wake them up either u r with them or nt lol wellll they may nvr wake up or wake up 2 late lol napolean once said "let china sleep 4 once she awaken she will ROCK the world" nt bad leh he predicted china rise 200 yrs ago dr goh predicted tht a few decades ago.
Posted by
Anonymous |
January 04, 2006 9:46 PM
xiao di bu cai (if i m tht talented long been fielded as a candidate) onli know bits n pcs of chn history xi wang ni bu yao qian xiao lol
Posted by
Anonymous |
January 04, 2006 9:49 PM
wellllll naturally as a chn (1/2 teochew 1/2 cantonese) i in2 chn history as li hongzhang say "wei wo hua xia you you 5k" li is reali a man born @ the wrong times 2gether with zhang zhidong (no doubt there r some conflicts between them) n ronglu dunno y qing collapse. being talented is nt enuff ur masters r nt as talented as u wad 2 do? after qianlong qing on decline (of cos nt overnite) in the 1800s big small rebellions u name it they hv it taiping rebellion etc etc so in 1911 wuchang uprising all the other provinces responded led 2 qing collapse (kangxi si bu ming mu lol no denial he reclaim taiwan from zhengjin son of zheng chengong)
Posted by
Anonymous |
January 04, 2006 9:58 PM
tths y i say sun nvr knew how 2 deal with yuan if i ic (sorie dun dare 2 compare myself against sun)u think yuan will live 1 shot in2 his head thts it!!!
Posted by
Anonymous |
January 04, 2006 10:01 PM
wahhhhhh no wonder can toke 2 u yeahhhhh credible 1 of cos lol
Posted by
Anonymous |
January 04, 2006 10:03 PM
aiya put it simply la u think if opp in power they will be so kind 2 pap in spore if u defame e most sue in other countries political assasination giv u 1 gd eg steve chia wasnt pap kind 2 him imagine he a pap mp they whack him like siao
Posted by
Anonymous |
January 04, 2006 10:07 PM
pap is 1 of the few govts in the world tht DARE 2 implement unpopular policies but 4 the gd of the country may i quote lky again in 59 "we wld rather lose the election than win it on fake promises" rite from the start pap did nt wan 2 be popular if necessary unpopular cos once u promise this n tht u cant deliver how? u noe the ans.
Posted by
Anonymous |
January 04, 2006 10:12 PM
Hi Wolong
Thanks. Yes, I held the same admiration for the great stateman Li Hongzhang. In fact I've the chinese version of his autobiography, but just can't find time to read it. The CCP portrayed him as the Chinese traitor for signing the humilating treaties but I guess he wouldn't have much of an option.
If there is 2 person (aside from LKY) which I think really helped build Singapore to what we are today, is Goh Keng Swee and Devan Nair. I think Dr Goh's contributions is immense and vital. As for Devan, if he had not switch camps from Lim Chin Siong to LKY's PAP, there wouldn't be a PAP today. He almost singlehandedly build the union to counter that of the Communist and made NTUC to what it is. However, I think my brief knowledge would not do these gentlemen justice should I write on them. But if I do find any articles on them I would definitely post them.
Cheers!
T
Posted by
Thrasymachus |
January 04, 2006 10:45 PM
Hi Footix24
Thanks for your comments as well. I do agree that ST is quite a mouthpiece of the PAP. Recently, I spoke to some of the journalists as well as people from the Mediacorp on this issue. Although they would always deny that they were told to report pro-PAP and not pro-opposition, a lot has to do on knowing who is your boss.
Personally, I do think they were not directed on what to write and what not to write. But because Temasek Holdings owns the media, would you dare to write anything that offend your boss? The relations is implicit and hence ST is what it is today. I might be wrong. Just a thought.
Cheers!
T
Posted by
Thrasymachus |
January 04, 2006 10:52 PM
I think wolong is setting a bad example to young singaporeans reading this blog by typing in short forms and basically making his posts very unreadable. Kudos to T for having the patience to read through his posts.
Wolong sounds like an old chap but type like a young ger. Hahaha.
Posted by
Anonymous |
January 04, 2006 11:04 PM
arrrr when ted cant outtalk me he suan me in such a way u c afterall i tot youngsters r e 1 who come up with such ways of writing learn from u ppl ma rite? lol how ted accepting my challenge go ahead call me pap dog in public ? dun dare rite no balls haha thts y u chosen another way out thts 2 suan me like this rite i can c thru u la dun try 2 be funni ok? lol others no complaints u e onli 1 where u coming from wp rite v obvious lol k la tell mi which ward u going i c u there byeeeee
Posted by
Anonymous |
January 04, 2006 11:40 PM
u want gd english? ok? make sure u know how 2 read ar lol aiya youngsters nw v highly ed they sure noe (me study til sec 2 hor paiseh ar dun look down on me lol)
Posted by
Anonymous |
January 04, 2006 11:42 PM
ted u wan a fight i game meet u on u dare in a courtroom plssss lol
Posted by
Anonymous |
January 04, 2006 11:43 PM
when u lose dun come begging 4 mercy k dun say i nvr warn u 1st be prepare 2 lose i nvr enter a war 2 lose (sun zi art of war : know ur enemy know ur urself 100 battles won!!)
Posted by
Anonymous |
January 04, 2006 11:45 PM
if he dun sign those treaty who will ask u who in the whole of qing govt dare 2 sign onli li zhongtang (my great great grandpa) lol its always been the case when u do something gd no 1 credit u (who m i talking u noe la) when things screw up all ur fault lol u can find such ppl here shall nt name them lol
Posted by
Anonymous |
January 04, 2006 11:51 PM
never knew ted to be so sarcastic like who leh? ring a bell someone in parliament also like this which party easy to find out is it got hammer one? dunno when someone has got nothing to find fault with but the way the person write shows tht person...... afterall if u dont want to read his posting thts fine!! go to goh meng seng blog then dont come here no one asking u to read rite? wolong is absolutely right cant outtalk him attack him in this way how come i dont find him girlish in fact many ppl praise him for his historical knowledge and to a certain extent agree with he does credit chiam and steve (r u blind? cant read?) when u want to poke fun @ others better look @ urself u chinese got a saying rite (look @ urself in a pool of urine anyway dont know what in mean my chn friends taught me but find it quite suitable on u)
Posted by
Anonymous |
January 05, 2006 12:01 AM
huh i setting bad eg ar soli arr my grandchildren taught me 1 paiseh i go discipline them hor u happi wan me cane them how many times lol
Posted by
Anonymous |
January 05, 2006 12:03 AM
To wolong:
Relac leh wolong...
But this time I have to agree with ted tat ur post are really quite hard to read leh (gerlish part dun agree), not trying to suan u but i usually have to read a more than once b4 understanding...
But dun worry, problem will be solve if u use more punctuation marks lol.
Posted by
at82 |
January 05, 2006 12:33 AM
Dunnoe what you two talking about. I have no interest in 'conversing' with wolong.
Dynasties are over, period.
So whatever gave jurandi the impression that I am trying to outtalk him, ahh sorry maybe you can talk to him or her.
T, I strongly suggest you change your comments to log in only, it's getting hard to leave comments now that yao mo gui guais are lurking.
*Yew mo gui guai fa di zao...*
Posted by
Anonymous |
January 05, 2006 12:36 AM
c even at82 dun agree i girlish lol arrrrrr nw ppl fiegning ignorance dunno wad ppl r toking when u nt interested in toking 2 mi y attack me arrr interested in toking 2 gms rite wp rite lol dr chee rite jbj rite go ahead la i nt keen in toking 2 u 2 lol welllll @ least history serve as an mirror there r ppl who appreciate tht unlike u how wana attack me openly i dare u once u r out in the open i shall confront u then u noe who m i c u no balls maybe u r a ger nt me welll at82 u shld noe who started this as i said b4 "if u r kind i shall be kind u try 2 be funni take me on dun blame me ok" i hv lived to this age nt 2 be fooled ard with the political arena is 4 serious ppl nt 4 ppl like...... how ted dare 2 take up my challenge ? no rite ? afterall u no balls la hor gers where got balls lol put on a skirt then lol byeee gd nite
Posted by
Anonymous |
January 05, 2006 12:49 AM
Hi Guys
Chill it. Everyone that made his comments has their own points and view. I'm not one who restricts the flow of conversations but as Gentlemens, lets try not to have anything leading to personal insults and attacks. Otherwise, this blog would just be another politic forum page (eg, YP web forum) where people made personal attacks rather than on policy issues.
I'm sure you all have your valid points and suggestions, but do allow others to express their own as well. Afterall, that is democracy (less the Taiwan parliament fights).
I'd like to believe that all who reads this blog has some objective that politics is meant to improve the lives of SIngaporean, just that we might differ in opinions on the parties and issues. Goals the same, different methods. Let's refocus on the goals instead.
Thanks for visiting my site. And welcome juradi.
Cheers!
T
Posted by
Thrasymachus |
January 05, 2006 12:51 AM
how? c me as a fighter ? confrontational ? if nt how 2 take on the communists in the 60s? if nt how 2 defeat them? if they r nt defeated u ppl hving this blog? dream on maybe u ppl wld hv 2 find a living somewhere else like blanga cum here 2 wk 4get abt pursuing ur degrees n landing urself wonderful job
Posted by
Anonymous |
January 05, 2006 12:54 AM
By the way Yuan Shikai seem very unpopular but without him betraying the Qing court, China will probably split into KMT controlled south and Qing controlled north for a very long period of time.
KMT's army is at best evenly match with Yuan's Beiyang army (KMT could even be weaker than Beiyang but not sure).
Moreover Yuan is also an excellent millitary commander and a talented politician (He built up his Beiyang army into a modern and powerful army and played an active role in late-Qing political reforms, including the creation of the Ministry of Education and Ministry of Police.
So although he is overly ambitious, he has to be credited for bringing down the Qing Dynasty and some late-Qing political reforms.
Posted by
at82 |
January 05, 2006 12:55 AM
Thrasymachus n at82 do i hv any prob wif u ppl no rite as i hv said we may disagree but still can discuss things as 4 some1 else i dare nt say so u noe where he coming from v clear rite? lol
Posted by
Anonymous |
January 05, 2006 12:57 AM
wellllll we must nvr mix gd n bad 2gether 4 all the gd things he did we must credit of cos (as we hv previously agree) but 4 all the bad things he does...... as i said if i ic hw will nt live another day lol sounds cruel but no choice lol
Posted by
Anonymous |
January 05, 2006 12:59 AM
ted dun say i dun giv u chance i giv u 3 days 2 openly whack me if u dare i doubt u dare then u noe who m i or issue an apology immd i shall 4get n let the matter rest.
Posted by
Anonymous |
January 05, 2006 1:01 AM
dao bu tong zhi bu he bu xiang wei meng lol throughout the ages thts has been the case can caocao n liubei shake hands no of cos (4 ppl nt in2 history plsss dun read no 1 forcing u 2 lol) can jbj n lky shake hands no of cos lol caocao ming wei han xiang shi wei han jie
Posted by
Anonymous |
January 05, 2006 1:05 AM
Hi Guys
Of course, I don't have a problem with anyone. As mentioned by wolong, I always welcome discussions even if we disagree on certain issues.
As such, let's not have any personal attacks.
As for Yuan Shikai, ultimately, a man is judge by the public on his final deeds and not the process. Betraying your emperor, betraying the republic, betraying the people's hopes is the final nail in his own coffin. No doubt he is a great politician with his cunning sharpness but he has a faulty character.
Cheers!
T
Posted by
Thrasymachus |
January 05, 2006 1:06 AM
ted nvr expect old men 2 be so hard rite u think oldies gd 2 bully u better think twice jiang ai shi lao de la (dunno get those gd in chn 2 explain 2 u lol )
Posted by
Anonymous |
January 05, 2006 1:07 AM
1st n formost i wld like to noe who started 1st (ren bu fan wo wo bu fan ren) btw y ted so silent scare ar lol nvr assume old men got no ammo in his gun even u agree he's faulty tht gd enuff rest my case lol
Posted by
Anonymous |
January 05, 2006 1:10 AM
oh ted behaviour reminded me of some1 remember 60s elections (once again u ppl 2 young dun blame u) some ppl booing when lky spoke when lky ask camera lights 2 shine @ them n challenge them 2 cum down they run away lol hope ted u r nt like them got balls cum out in the open n meet me understand? lol
Posted by
Anonymous |
January 05, 2006 1:14 AM
btw those ppl got their hankerchief on ted u got anot? dun hv wear a skirt then lol
Posted by
Anonymous |
January 05, 2006 1:15 AM
ted u choose ok dun say i force u either u cum out in the open or issue an apology here n i shall let the matter rest
Posted by
Anonymous |
January 05, 2006 1:17 AM
wellllll dun think he got the balls 2 go public neither will he apologise just like tang he said "y shld i apologise" chauvinistic tang liang hong must be kept out of parl @ all costs how u ppl wana support him? some ppl will
Posted by
Anonymous |
January 05, 2006 1:20 AM
wondering if ted is chn knew nothing abt chn history wad a shame!!! halo u noe ur surname ? dunno i teach u bai jia xing zhao qian sun li
zhao - zhao kuangyin (founding emperor of song dynasty chen qioa ping bian)
qian - qian qichen (if i din remember wrongly former foreign minister of china)
sun - (famous rite eg sun yat sen sun yanzi sunquan sunzi)
li (famous 2 lky lhl tang emperors also bear tht surname )
brush up on ur knowledge even lky noe he from dapu guandong u? lol
Posted by
Anonymous |
January 05, 2006 2:02 AM
Hi Trasy:
I agree that man are usually judge by his final deeds.
Juz like Li Hongzhang, he is branded as a traitor by most chinese until today, although he is probably one of the greatest stateman of China during the late Qing.
But maybe we shd juz give Yuan some credits, his only fault is that he is too ambitious.
But then again why shdn't he be ambitious? Afterall he controlled the most powerful army in China then ;p.
Posted by
at82 |
January 05, 2006 3:23 AM
China so good right, 5000 years of history and they are still playing catch up.
Posted by
Anonymous |
January 05, 2006 11:16 AM
y Anonymous? wad r u scare of? lol nt happi tht china on the rise even US n jap hv to be wary lol welllll 4 ppl who noe history they knew wad happened to china in the last 100 yrs (if nt u n i wldnt be here 2day)
Posted by
Anonymous |
January 05, 2006 7:59 PM
lo wp mbrs got their personal blog u all going there include ppl like gms james gomez melvin tan u think they can secure a win over us nxt life maybe lol maybe nxt life also dun hv lol
Posted by
Anonymous |
January 05, 2006 8:21 PM
1st n foremost nvr say electorate nvr giv chance 2 opp remember 91 GE men like ling h d n cheo c c got voted in where r they nw? y isit tht they can lasts onli 1 term (unlike chiam n low) wad kind of a margin did they win by? wad kind of a margin did they lose? u shld noe. if opp continue 2 field men like them 4get it the wards r better served by ong a h n ang m s.
Posted by
Anonymous |
January 05, 2006 8:26 PM
pap qian qiu wan dai yong cui bu xiu lol
Posted by
Anonymous |
January 05, 2006 8:27 PM
onli with pap ic can spore enjoy growth prosperity opp lack the ability 2 form the nxt govt
Posted by
Anonymous |
January 05, 2006 8:28 PM
even the most promising opp guy in the last GE wad happen 2 him? u shld noe i shall nt dwell on it
Posted by
Anonymous |
January 05, 2006 8:29 PM
sporeans must be careful if pap is voted out thts it!!! forever n ever we may nvr live 2 c a prosperous clean eficient spore again maybe nt even our descendants so in the coming GE exercise ur vote cautiously n return pap 2 a overwhemling mandate
Posted by
Anonymous |
January 05, 2006 8:32 PM
Ted: Prof. Stephen Ball of the IOE, University of London, writes on the policy cycle, with reference especially to education policy in the UK. Not sure whether his works are available here though.
Posted by
Anonymous |
January 07, 2006 8:58 PM
Thanks wedgie, I am more interested in the kinds of policy cycle existing in Singapore.
As an aside I an reading Social science and policy in Australia. I've check out the courses in Singapore, there isn't aything similar but i guess it's cos that the CSC will teach such stuff to the civil servants.
Posted by
Anonymous |
January 07, 2006 9:42 PM
orrrrrr no wonder ted in australia arrrrrr lol thts explain the reason y lol so daring ar hitting us from afar like francis seow tan w p etc icic how dare 2 come bk lol
Posted by
Anonymous |
January 07, 2006 11:51 PM
Hi all
Let me just categorically state that I welcome all to this blog. Views from others in the comments do not represent me or this blog, unless I used my username "Trasy".
I do not prohibit anyone from this blog but will, from time to time, moderate the comments based on its sensitivity.
Cheers!
T
Posted by
Thrasymachus |
January 09, 2006 2:53 PM
"I’ve never believed in neutrality for neutrality sake but I believe in giving credit where credit is due. Politics should never be the case when you are either with me or against me kind of attitude. Nor is politics having a definitive right solution and a definitive wrong solution. The world is changing and no longer is the world where the truth is white (no punts intended on PAP colours!) and the wrong being black. Perhaps the world is just a shade of grey"
I applaud for your stand in giving credit when it is due. I think most people are rather selfish with that.
Sadly, politics is often mixed with strong emotions that most people do not and cannot discuss with detachment and objectivity. Then again, the fundamental of politics is dealing with the betterment of men, which void of emotions, makes it non-existent in the first place. Still, we should not allow ourselves to be clouded by judgement.
I don't agree with the whole being a shade of grey. I think the truth is out there. Right, wrong..it is there..just that, often, we make excuses for the wrongs. If we allow everything to be in shades of grey, we will never be able to uphold what is right.
Posted by
sa |
January 12, 2006 4:33 AM
of cos we in the pap is 4ever rite opp 4ever wrong if we r wrong in the 1st plc 4get abt hving modern spore 2day lol (well while no 1 can find fault with pap past achievements there r smart aleck out there trying 2 peep in2 e future thinking they can replaced us fat hope!!! majority of sporeans hv been with pap 4 past 40 yrs and many more 2 come lol)
Posted by
Anonymous |
January 12, 2006 1:34 PM
if only opp can argue their case objectively of cos they cant!! onli pap can do so thts y ppl r with them from day 1 until nw. pap has nvr fall short of expectations n nvr will lol. who fall short of expectations u noe i noe (shall nt name them lol) of cos sa is another young ger here nvr went thru 50s/60s i dun blame her ask her parents n grandparents n they will noe (pardon me if i toke too much abt e past but without e past there wld be no present spore rite n i sad 2 say ppl brought up in an era of peace n propserity only noe so much lol no offence intended if there is my apologies)
Posted by
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