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Thursday, December 14, 2006 

“The Argumentative Singaporean (Part 1)” – PAP-Bashing with Reasoning

I guess I am one blogger that never comes out with good eye-catching titles. The suggestion of having the title, “The Argumentative Singaporean”, was largely inspired by the book by Amartya Sen titled, “The Argumentative Indian”. If you are wondering if I’ve read that book, the answer is a resounding “no”. But I did catch a glimpse of the book and its synopsis. Guess this book must make its way to my shelves by this weekend! Anyway, the purpose of starting this “PAP-Bashing with Reasoning” thread is to engage any reader into a thought-process to see if our regular qualms and criticisms of PAP are justified. Just like what Amartya Sen argued, “discussions and argument are critically important for democracy and public reasoning”. The argumentative tradition, if used with deliberation and commitment, can also be extremely important in resisting social inequalities and removing poverty and deprivation. Voice is a crucial component of the pursuit of social justice.” Voting and balloting — the inventions of Athens and the ancient West — are just part of a much larger story.

Yes, this is just my little feeble attempt at assessing our own argumentative culture of voicing our grievances against the ruling. For this, let’s keep any open our mind to debates and challenges to our statements. Stand for what you believe in and argue your case. But accept the challengers’ points if they are valid and sound. I believe we are all matured and learned people who are rational enough to assess the validity of the points. The point we should also note is that when we seemingly lost the argument, we shouldn’t resort to petty mudslinging, personal insults and stubborn claiming victory, likening a “Party” familiar to us all.

Just to state my position in this episode is that I am writing a pseudo-govt’s perspective on possibly why they did that or have not done that or did that but no one knows about it. So don’t burn me at the stake or lynch me for my comments. Now, lets move on to your valued inputs and comments. From the 40-50 replies, I think there are some salient points repeated by the contributors. So let’s start with some interesting ones.

Qn: “My main beef with the PAP is that they are close-minded to criticisms. It seems like they care more about maintaining their ego and image than about real debate and feedback. PM Lee keeps claiming that he wants a more open and inclusive society, and encourages people to speak up for issues they are passionate about, but sadly does not match his rhetoric with his actions. Many examples abound, all taken from just this year alone…”

This is just one of the many comments and charges on the PAP not listening enough and slamming down hard on those who gave their piece. I think this encompasses several issues and sub-parts, 1) PAP not listening enough; 2) They closed-up whenever the criticisms get potential sever; 3) They force policies down the throat of Singaporeans regardless of the majority consensus; 4) They words do not match their actions, which is that the open and inclusive society is done at face-value; 5) They adopting an elitist and top-down action in regardless of nature of the policies or problems. While these comments are fairly common and one-sided (against the PAP, of course), I don’t think anyone or any group has adequately looked into this. It is hard to find any middle ground in this, as there is too thin a line to divide one who is in the “mainstream” criticizing the PAP and the other end of what the PAP are saying now. So bear with me in attempting to walk this thin line, as it will be likely that I’d be seen stepping more towards the PAP side (to balance the weight on the other).

In any political action, policy or comment, no party in the world can ignore the political cost involved, not even the PAP. The PAP, or any other parties, will not be immune to the political implications if they make decision regardless of the wishes of the people. One good example is the integrated resorts (IR). When it was first mooted that the PAP government will take the opinions and feedbacks of Singaporeans in deciding whether or not to have the IR, many voiced their opinions and opposition towards it. While there seem to be many opposing the IR, the PAP went ahead with it and allowed, not one, but two IRs. Again, many slammed the PAP for their “authoritarian” action. The question became not whether we should or should not have the IR but was whether the PAP made the effort to listen to the opinions of the people. Many felt that the PAP didn’t. May I just say this, “this is the true democracy at work, and in this aspect, PAP is democratic.” And I don’t mean this with any cynicism or to poke fun at PAP. This is really democracy to its true meaning.

Let’s put this into scenarios.

1) 51% (aka majority) of the people oppose to the decision to go ahead with the IR
2) 51% (aka majority) of the people agree to the decision to go ahead with the IR

If PAP chose (1), they would have suffered the serious political implications of losing a few seats during GE or the whole GE itself. Of course, you will think this is crap and the government will not lose the majority in parliament over an IR policy. But this is precisely how a democratic government should and would function. There will be a tipping point or issue that is sensitive to the median voter and threaten the position of the government. One such example of the “tipping point or issue” is the Shin Corp and Thaksin saga.

So, now we know that the issues or bitter policies that the PAP had implemented were not the tipping point issues, even the recent GST hikes. But the question is really, why then is the PAP able to make unpopular policies and still able to retain a comfortable majority in parliament? Let’s not be overly engrossed in “repressive crap” and fear of being traced and purged rubbish. We can go on and on about these conspiracy theories and have no conclusions. Frankly, to me, these crap hold little water.

From deduction, this leaves us with two other options: a) the policies that PAP implemented has the endorsement of 51% of the majority (likely the silent majority), b) net effect of the unpopular and popular policies are in favour of the PAP. Both are the side effects of the democracy or what the great John Stuart Mills called the “tyranny of the majority”. While we may not be a perfect democracy, but we are a democratic country. The point I’m driving at is not whether is the PAP right or wrong in their policies or actions and calculated move in assessing the tipping point. If there is an issue you felt strongly about, don’t be in the silent majority and grumble behind the scenes. Take your words into action. Back your words with reasoning and debate over your views. If you are wrong, take it head-on and accept the better argument. If you are right, persist and change the norms. Tilt the tide in your favour and be a change starter, not sitting there to wait for things to happen.

Make no bones about whether your views will be taken seriously. If you are serious about your views and your views are serious, people will take you seriously. We grumbled when the GST goes up or when the transport cost goes up. The government has a well-reasoned argument (don’t think you need me to state those again, but if you wishes to, I’ll be happy to do so), but have the critics got one? From the government’s perspective, it is logical and beneficial to the majority, but time and time again, people grumbled when their pockets hurt. We did what European governments failed to do, and they failed because they failed to do what we did. If we continuously fail to think beyond our self-interest and look at the net benefits, we will experience the same decline as many European countries.

I guess this thread should start many talking points and before we move on the other issues, let’s debate over this and not let this sweep conveniently under the carpet.

Do not pretend to understand politics, when you don't, dude.

Does any one dare to state their true point of view when the Marxist conspiracy / ISA detention is still so fresh in our minds?
http://www.singapore-window.org/sw01/010521m1.htm
On the other hand, what happened to Mr Brown - Do you think our government accepts alternative views? Or does one need to be a Chee Soon Juan to be heard?

"Back your words with reasoning and debate over your views."

What happens if someone did come out with good ideas but did not suit the political agenda? Will they still be accepted? Policies appear to help the people, but are they really not there for other hidden agendas. Do you have the access of "TOP SECRET" internal memos between the political leaders? What we see are the actions in policy implementation but not the true motives behind them. Words used in policies do not tell us what are on their minds? They are definitely not "craps", they are truly out to ensure that they stay in power.

eg of good ideas - tiered GST. Is that not possible? What is the government up to when it states clearly that it intends to raise GST as the normal tax will drive away the richer people and MNCs. This will allow the govt to tax the poorer people who are not taxed currently ie lower income bracket. And in the same breathe, the govt insists that it is meant to help the people, tilt towards the lower income who are currently not taxed. It does not make sense. Unless it is to help them for 1 year and make them pay for the rest of the years. If we are to continue with this logic, the GST will increase to 20 % soon, because the poor people need more and more help. (but we will not increase the corp tax and income tax because we cannot afford to chase them away, while the poor people cannot run. But they can jump into the MRT tracks and get out of our uncaring elite face) THe government needs to rethink its strategy and PR skills. If it needs to increase the GST - just do it, we will be upset, but when PAP talk about helping the poor, it makes her citizens look like idiots. Esp those 'thinking' ones in the middle income trap. I don't know .....

i think i remembered once upon a time in parliament , chiam see tong argued with conviction the need to have smaller class group..but the then education minister shot it down and said that studies does not conclusively prove smaller class group is better...few years later..the education ministry says that smaller class group helps..blah..blah..and i think the whole parliament was laughing at chiam see tong then for such lousy suggestion.
i could be wrong in my memories..still a young chap then..please correct me if it is so

Why then is the PAP able to make unpopular policies and still able to retain a comfortable majority in parliament?

While I do not believe that the PAP goes out of its way just to alienate the people for fun, it remains a fact that they retain many political advantages that translate into a far larger hold over the parliament seats than the percentage of support.

Lets name a few of such advantages - a partisan civil service. Complete control over the mass-media. The GRC system. Control over electoral boundaries via the PMO.

Are the above points representative of democracies as we know it? Or do the net effect of those strong advantages translate into a 'tyranny of the majority'?

AC

Pls added another few points to the list of wrongs by PAP.

a. Totalitarian control of the mass media and utilization of the mass media to propagate obvious half truth/falsehood/biased perspective in order to promote their own agenda/welfare. Ditto for denying fair and equal access to mass media of reasonable criticisms and opposing views.

b. Tyrannical oppression of the political opposition members and civic leaders. Chia Thye Poh. Nuff said...

c. Unconstitutional influence over the compliant judiciary and utilization of the compliant judiciary to destroy political opponents

As for the majority mandate they claim to possesses, a significant portion of it can be attributed to plain ignorance and lack of clear thinking. never attribute to malice what can be better explained by simply incompetence...

PAP remind me of Robin Hood, only that this Robin Hood stand to gain more wealth and status. Robin Hood rob the rich to give the poor, leaving little for himself other than to allow to continue his activities. Whereas the PAP here seem to "rob" both rich and the poor, and then say that it is helping the poor, where in fact, this Robin Hood seek to gain more benefits and wealth than the poor. Soon this modern robin hood continue to expand and protect their territory and believe that they are superb ruler of country and that what they do is "beyond scrutiny".

"An open and inclusive society". Fine, so former PM Goh once said gays are accepted in the civil society.

Then why in the world is homosexual sex still considered criminal and an offence? If we are really so open and inclusive, shouldn't gays be considered as part of our society too?

"Oh but we might offend the religious groups and society is not ready”

But then, the religious groups have been against the IR/casinos and still they are open. Which goes to show
the government definitely has sufficient power and authority to amend this law if they so wish

For the record, I’m 100% straight.

So an open and inclusive society…should we be more forgiving as well? 2 bloggers who wrote some “racist material” on their
Blogs, has anyone questioned why racism is a crime? How serious is it? Why the need to expose them, criminalize them
and put their acts in mainstream media? Counselling.…anyone? (The softer, more humane approach)

Just to add...but then again, using the political cost argument, perhaps the silent 51% majority is AGAINST de-criminalising homosexual sex. I'm an agnostic who believes that gays have a place in our society.

And racist bloggers need to be jailed...51%??!!

Hopeful open-minded,
Professor

Singaporeans are really tired of those who urge us to open up to debates and state our minds when in all purposes they don't really care a hoot about what we think. It's just another method to shut us up.

Tired and yes, fed up. Stop insulting us further.

I hate such pretentious gestures. Go eat shit, as sammyboys will say.

I think we should all wait for Mr T to respond to these comments first. It is easy to post all these rants and not learn any possible insights that can be gleaned from Mr T.

Thanks.

I was watching satellite TV in a Taipei Hotel last week, and the French TV version of CNN featured the story of a South African family who had moved to France and extolling the wonderful lifestyle of living in their new host country. After singing praises about public services, transport, food, etc the spouse said, "but I find that the French people like to complain." A French lady, within microphone and camera range, rebutted with this, "Surely we have a right to aim higher?"

RH: My blog "I came, I saw, I solved it" at url

http://i-came-i-saw-i-solved-it.blogspot.com/

proves that LKY PAP rig elections, as eyewitnessed by a former Police Inspector and his Lawyer friend.

Once you accept this proof, much of Singapore politics becomes magically clear and understandable. LKY is just another Third World despot dictator who simply hasn't killed anybody yet [that I know of] although he has certainly made me, my son and my little niece very sick and tortured for exposing his election cheating ways.

But he had jailed Chia Thye Poh for most of his life, as the longest-jailed political prisoner in world history. As well as totally innocent 'Marxist Conspirators', 22 of them.

Read my blog and you will have good reasons to close down yours.

Robert HO
S0197974D

Hi everyone

Thanks for all your comments, each and everyone of them. Perhaps, especially so for the first one. Yes, like many others out there, I don't understand politics. We all thought we do, but never.

Just like my pseudonym, Thrasymachus in Plato's Republic, believing that justice is the advantage of the stronger. Isn't the world's defender of democracy, the United States, imposing their own sense of justice and democracy onto the world? Think the logic is parallel.

If one choose to be a bystander, let him be, as people will impose and dictate their views as of his own.

Well, to Professor, then do you know that we are the only nation in the world who has a health committee made up of prominent gays and gays activist in our very own Ministry of Health? And this committee has been around for more than a year in MOH. Even the guy who organized the nation party is in it.

Looking back the past decade, I think Singapore has changed and the government has changed. But the speed of opening up is never agreeable to anyone. Ever sat in a group of concerned and angry parents wanting MTV channel to banned, as they thought it was undue influence to their kids? The balance of it all is a difficult one. The speed is even more difficult.

With regards the MICA, another quick facts. The censorship is not dictated by MICA, but a group randomly chosen bunch of ordinary folks amongst us. This group will satisfy all sample testing of randomness for all population. And this is changed yearly, if i'm not wrong. Nope, they are not PAP cronies or associates.

I think we all have our own angst on the GST. Maybe I'll write something separate on this one. But there are practical difficulties on why a tiered GST is not possible in Singapore or any other parts in the world.

Too much length...ooops...sorry!

Cheers!
T

>If one choose to be a bystander,
>let him be, as people will impose
>and dictate their views as of his
>own.

This is the worst nightmare one can ever have, for "commoner" in a country, or for a "worker" in a company. If you do not speak up, you are walked-over. (As for a "member" in a good family, other members seldom walk-over each other.)

The gov just wants more money.
...When casinos are built, finance professionals guess GST will stay. A fact ?
...In Dec ST, an architect says money from casinos can be used to fund R&D in green buildings. A fact ?
...As a separate trust fund is not created for gst collected, some portion of gst is used for other purpose, like stored up for future. A fact ?
...A local writer suggests a conspiracy - "There is a Great Divide" in Sg in 1994. Personally, how much $$ leaders get don't bother me. But how much effort i put in to earn $1, and how uncontentedly the gov takes back 2% more, it bothers me.
...New Zealand's cost of living in Sg is lower, though GST hike is higher 12.5%. Without chatting with foreigners, Sg life is better than foreign country ? A fact ? (Nah)

Only reason GST hike is...to hike earlier, in future will be earier to manage. And maybe, a polar ice-caps melt, Sg will be flooded, and then, gov will have enough money to help.

I'm pleasantly surprised to see my comment quoted. I had long forgotten about it and it was by chance that I stumbled back to this blog. Thank you for replying to it at length.

However, I of course disagree with your analysis. First, you assume that politics in Singapore is a level playing field, and hence the people will vote out the PAP if they were unhappy with it. However, a compliant judiciary, a pro-PAP media, and the GRC system, among others, all conspire to disadvantage the Opposition. I won't go in-depth on how each of these unbalance the playing field, because they have been discussed to death.

Second, you have not actually addressed my point that the PAP does not listen. All you've said is that "The fact that the PAP is still elected with a majority proves that on balance, it still has the support of the people", which does not answer the question at all. The question is not of whether the PAP is elected. The question is whether after being elected, it listens to the people and takes them seriously.

You exhort us to come up with reasoned arguments instead of being part of the "silent majority". But the whole point is that the government does not care about your arguments. I suggest you read Yawning Bread - Alex's articles are flawlessly-reasoned and superbly written, and he goes out of the way to publicise himself, but does the government pay heed to his activism? No, gays are still systematically marginalised and discriminated against in our society. I suspect the public consultation exercise for the proposed penal code adjustments are purely symbolic - by and large, the PAP has made up its mind and won't bother about the numerous dissenting voices.

So it all shows that the government doesn't really care about our views. After all, they are the scholar-elite - they have received the best education possible and are the smartest people in the nation. No one could possibly outsmart them, right? So why listen to the reasoning of the lowly commoner?

And so what if unpopular policies hurt them at the ballot box? The PAP can just dispose of political opponents with the judiciary like they did with JBJ, Tang Liang Hong and Francis Seow. The media can be pulled in to demonise them too, as it often does CSJ. You really need to read up on the dirty tactics the PAP has employed in the past before you continue talking about elections in Singapore as if they were free and fair.

And last but not least, democracy is not just about elections every five years - it encompasses a whole suite of civil liberties, such as freedom of speech and media. Your view of democracy is antiquated - the world has changed greatly since JS Mill, you know.

Once again the usual reasons r given by the above poster as to why the opposition is disadvantaged. But despite all these the opposition still managed to field 47 candidates and contest more than half the wards, end of the day, PAP garnered 66.6% of the votes and returned to power. Furthermore in 1991 they purposely contest less than half the no of seats thus returning the PAP to power and only 51% of the eligible voters can vote. Hence its the opposition who deny the voters to go to the polling station not PAP.

If everything listens to people u will die. U r simply bowing to pressure. If Sporeans say give everyone a gold bar u give? Where $$$ comes from? Drop from sky?

May I ask which conservative country is a pro gay society?

I can give u many eg tht PAP has indeed listened to Sporeans.

- Increasing GST in stages
- Imposing $100 entrance fee to casinoes.
- Workfare bonus requirement was initially a continous uninterrupted 6 mths employment period but so long as u can chalked up 6 mths of employment (govt aware tht perm jobs is a thing of the past and many r holding on to temp/contract jobs), they give it to u.

U seemed to be an idol of tang, Francis & co. Before accusing PAP of using dirty tricks, pls know who they r and what they stand for.

Who's JS Mill btw.

To sum it up, the above poster is a staunch supporter of the fiercest critics (tang, JBJ & CSJ) of PAP. He dreamt of them in power hence any counter argument tht we rational/logical people he would not accept and put up worse conter arguments.

Simply put in his eyes anyone who has voted for PAP before is a "Lackey of the PAP regime" who has a helping hand in oppressing fellow sporeans, sue them, intimidate them, make them flee S'pore (as in Tang/Francis case) etc etc.

Hence its pointless to argue with him because he see us as the biggest lackeys.

Examples of "PAP has indeed listened to Sporeans"???

- Increasing GST in stages:
What the people is saying, from the economics student to the university dons, is that GST is a regressive tax. To even suggest an increase, at a time when even Mah Bow Tan has admitted to Reuters that the GINI index is high by international standards, shows that the man is completely out of touch with the ground. Even his lackeys have problems explaining that his statement "the GST increase is not an increase" oxymoron

- Imposing $100 entrance fee to casinoes:
Lee Kuan Yew himself brought up the example of his conducting a straw poll at a dinner table, all of which were dead against the casino except one chap whose business was in operating casinos. Surely you are not naive to believe that $100 is a big deal for gamblers?

- Workfare bonus requirement was initially a continous uninterrupted 6 mths employment period but so long as u can chalked up 6 mths of employment (govt aware tht perm jobs is a thing of the past and many r holding on to temp/contract jobs), they give it to u:
Have you forgotten the "buy supporters votes" public confession? For the record, permanent jobs is NOT a thing of the past, just think of the two 80+ year olds who are still drawing humongous salaries from the state coffers.

Why worry about 'humongous salaries'? S'pore is rich. Yet, to help the poor, there are many rules.

...and need to raise GST... otherwise, spore will be bankrupted. But the government is not afraid that casinoes will make ppl bankrupts soon.

of course the government welcomes ideas from the public and would adopt good ideas; the real question is whether people feel encouraged to do it or not; I would not do it if

(a) I would be considered a show off

(b) If I do it often I would be considered a pain in the neck

(c) if my idea is treated dismissively if I am not a scholar/ivy graduate, etc

(d) if my idea happens to be inconvenient and makes someone look bad, I would be labelled a naughty boy

I can go on, but I trust you get my drift

Isn't a contradiction that on one hand, the govt. wants a more creative, inclusive society yet when someone starts a "400 frowns" web-site to protest against the IMF meetings, he is taken for questioning by the police?

Why is the govt. so sensitive to such civil society? A certain amount of chaos, disobedience, heck even protests is necessary for a more creative, dynamic yet disorderly society.

Say, if one day on the streets I say "LKY is over-rated, too old, living in the past and does not deserve his multi-million dollar salary". Will I be sued for that? (Stating an opinion)

the touchiness is actually a result of their wide control: there are just too many things, and too many people, in the system that you easily rub against something/someone, especially as they have put a lid on everything/everyone, so if you are different even in a small and harmless way, you stand out and get knocked down

Eleanor Wong was quoted recently on the Marxist consipracy. What is your take on this? Mr T - your views?

http://www.todayonline.com/articles/124578print.asp

only one found on google; seems old

Hi T, regardless of the kind of system governing singapore, be it democracy, monarchy, communist, the nature of the government is to serve her citzens and not "government"'s interests.

For IR to work is still yet to be seen.

For Bio industry, it's not moving as it is a time-consuming and costly industry.

For GST, the intention is good but is the policy reasonable and fulfilling it's intention?

Lastly, of course, actions speak louder than words. Maybe you can provide some suggestions of how actions can determine the direction policies be made.

Cheers

Hi everyone

Sorry to go missing for quite sometime. Holidays are always good but not when work accumulates up in tons.

Let's work the comments backwards.

Amatu,
Haven't heard from you for quite sometime. Good to hear from you again. Well, definitely interesting to assess how decisions are made to action. But that would take another long blog to solve that. Maybe I'll leave that to another section.

Professor
Well, the whole foreign investments and dependency on foreign trade is ironic not build on civil disobedience but stability. Well, from a very soul-less finance and business viewpoint, it was very true. So why should the government risk instability, the basis of the "Goh-Keng-Swee economic model", at all.

Virginia
Well, you have a point there. But there are more to policies and decision making than what you mentioned. Ultimately, policies should not be judge by the popularity but its necessity.

Sweat Pea
Well, if you've been to NZ, you will defer from you current view. Their income tax is in the region of 40+%.

Thanks!
T

but they dont have COE, ARF, nor high land price; and social welfare is better

in any case, not really meaningful to critique political issues using such details

Hi T,

Well i believe one of the reasons for Hong Kong and Taiwan's vibrant entertainment scene (movies, dramas) is because of the "messiness" in the society, a certain deviant and people who do not play by the rules of society.

Similarly, I believe we need a certain degree of non-conformance so as to allow for diversity. In the long run, i believe society will be the better for it. (Not just in financial or monetary terms, but overall wellness)

Here's a interesting debate: Porn is disallowed in singapore. Will singapore be better off if porn is legalised? Measure the positives vs negatives (potential multi-million industry vs social problems).

surely professors know that correlation is not causation; like, HK has 6 universities while SG only has 4; so maybe the vibrancy was due to there being more professors...

Hi T,

On the other side of the coin, the casino debate was more of a wayang. They have obviously made the decision to implement 2 casinos (w/o telling us and allowing it to be debated 1st) even if the majority does not consent to it.

Honestly, if they are really "democratic" and "open and inclusive", they should have put the casino to a referendum. Not merely providing avenues for us to debate and complain which makes it seems like it's all wayang.

Hi Charissa
I agree very much with you in that the casino debate was quite a “democratic disaster”. However, if you’ve noticed not many, or rather no government in the modern society has issue referendums on social or economic policies. This is rightly so as it will only weaken the standing of the decisiveness of the incumbent government. But that is very much a political science topic for debates. But yes, even the mot “democratic” of governments, the USA, has not issued any referendum in recent history.

Hi Professor and Anonymous
Yes, I’d agree that we shouldn’t do any unnecessary correlations drawing to the vibrant “difference” in Singapore and HK. It will always be multi factors and not a decisive one. Afterall, politics are subjective, seldom objective.

Thanks!
T

casino decision was hardly a "democratic disaster", since the mode of operation was already familiar to all; it was a surprise mainly because the government and LKY in particular appeared to be anti-casino until recently, so that the people hardly knew what to say when the idea was first mooted; it was hard to make democratic discussions when so many were feeling tongue-tied

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The Idealist

  • Thrasymachus
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  • The Critic, The Philosopher, The Pragmatist, The Moralist, The Egalitarian, The Confused, The True-Blue Singaporean
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